There is a point that if we do nothing in a year or two authoritarianism will be normalized. As it stands now, we are disappearing people without warrants and so much more. Resist and Unsubscribe[0]
They forgot the “don’t be evil” era ended a long time ago.
I applaud the initiative but it’s naive to think this’ll change anything. And when push comes to shove these people wont quit their comfy job in this economic climate.
The government is bound by acquisition processes for these large contracts: they put out RFPs and companies compete for the contract. All Google has to do is not bid for the next contract.
Pretty sure the 13th Amendment guarantees this, in theory. (Corporations aren't natural persons, but forcing a corporation to provide a service boils down to forcing people to provide a service.)
That is what they did to those protesting Google’s complicity in Israel actions in Gaza. But it is unclear if they hold Palestinian sympathy in the same contempt as sympathy for fellow Americans but we will see.
A little meta, but in the last few years, I've seen so many online communities devolved into political circle jerks that completely robbed the original community from its purpose. An illustrative example that related to HN is https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/.
The mechanism is similar to the title above - you bring a hot political topic, and masquerade it to appear related to the main topic of the community. The discussions tend to get heated, which tend to - over time - make the people who cared about the community leave.
This might be a controversial take - but I think that HN should generally take a more strict approach to moderating political articles that are only vaguely HN related. I fully understand that political topics are important, but there are so many communities that have fallen, and I don't want to lose another. This is in no way a statement against the merits of the letter mentioned in the article.
This story is entirely under HN's remit. HN’s purpose is explicit. It is not “keep things comfortable.”
It is “curious, informed discussion of what matters in and around tech.”
When a top tech firm is materially enabling coercion or violence, and even dodging the press over it, that is a tech story first and foremost. And it matters.
Besides which: Your argument is very old, and has been rejected many, many, many times.
> there are so many communities that have fallen, and I don't want to lose another
What killed r/technology wasn't 'politics'. It was mass censorship, shit mods, brigading, clickbait farming, and allowing the toxic elements to spread bs unchecked. You know, like when you let any users flag stories and then unaccountable mods with no logs very selectively unflag the ones they like.
Censoring 'political' topics just makes the smartest and coolest people leave. And our tech companies have been complicit collaborators in far too many serious crimes lately to trust things to work themselves out without even looking at them.
Tech companies have been deeply entangled with states and coercive institutions for decades, now up to the point of genocide, concentration camps, and masked thugs with "total federal immunity". Pretending that’s off-limits isn't community preservation. It's wilful ignorance and must be firmly rejected.
Nope, which is why people generally live longer and are happier in Europe compared to the US. The newest iphone doesn't make up for lack of health/friends/free time/education/sane leaders etc.
I always thought it was ridiculous that HN had a "no politics" rule. It is arrogance to think you can segment "politics" and confine it and then be above it somehow by using this as an excuse to not have discussions that make you uncomfortable. Everything is political.
It's not a dumb rule, you can go to reddit or facebook or a dozen other places if you want to read endless low-effort, kneejerk commentary by people spouting their side's talking points.
You're so right, the problem is not Trump posting fake AI videos of the Obamas as apes. That's actually very normal. The real problem is anyone who talks about it outside of r/politics.
Great. Also need Amazon and Microsoft to cut ties. Not just with ICE but the administration as a whole. Unfortunately this is also a time when employees have low leverage given all the layoffs. Better to fight for a union first.
Being that ICE has also been kidnapping some US citizens, this is par for the course. Beyond ICE, Google however needs to go further and also cut ties with Palantir which otherwise will become stronger by continuing to serve as a proxy cloud for ICE.
All these tech companies have cowards for leaders, and Sundar Pichai is no different. And he’s a non white immigrant! The CEOs fear being attacked by the administration through regulations or anti trust or not being given contracts. They are some of the most powerful people and yet they bend the knee so easily. Andy Jassy of Amazon is the worst though - funding the Melania documentary is so blatantly corrupt.
This era is evidence for why we cannot continue allowing individuals or mega corps to accumulate the kind of money and power they have. It is too easy to corrupt them.
Cowardice is the wrong word here. It implies that these people have a desired action that they're not taking because of fear, weakness, or hesitation.
What tech companies actually have is rapacious sociopaths for leaders. They have purposely brought about the current state of affairs through intensive lobbying, spending, and direct action.
For the most part, they don't believe that they should be held accountable for their behavior. They don't fundamentally believe in democracy, and many of them don't really believe humans and human life are more important than some other abstract concept that they have in their heads. At root, they all believe in rule by the elite.
This may seem like an argumentative distinction, but I would counter that it's crucial to understanding what we have to do next, which is not to try to convince them, but rather to take back the power that they've accumulated over us, against their best efforts to stop us.
There is a point that if we do nothing in a year or two authoritarianism will be normalized. As it stands now, we are disappearing people without warrants and so much more. Resist and Unsubscribe[0]
[0]: https://www.resistandunsubscribe.com/
Didn’t they fire some people from google who were protesting US military contracts a while back?
They forgot the “don’t be evil” era ended a long time ago.
I applaud the initiative but it’s naive to think this’ll change anything. And when push comes to shove these people wont quit their comfy job in this economic climate.
Right way of resisting is not to quit your job, but to observe, be friendly, and gradually push away toxic people.
Dumb question: Can a US company even refuse service to a US Federal Government agency?
The government is bound by acquisition processes for these large contracts: they put out RFPs and companies compete for the contract. All Google has to do is not bid for the next contract.
Yes.
They could be nationalized in times of war, but that hasn't happened since WW2 I think.
The antitrust case and other regulatory arm twisting is more to worry about.
I think it's kind of past the point of wondering what somebody can and cannot do according to the law? There used to be the constitution and stuff.
Pretty sure the 13th Amendment guarantees this, in theory. (Corporations aren't natural persons, but forcing a corporation to provide a service boils down to forcing people to provide a service.)
Yes they absolutely can. Providing services to the government is strictly a choice made by the business.
on monday they'll have to update the article
> 900 former Google employees
That is what they did to those protesting Google’s complicity in Israel actions in Gaza. But it is unclear if they hold Palestinian sympathy in the same contempt as sympathy for fellow Americans but we will see.
>That is what they did to those protesting Google’s complicity in Israel actions in Gaza.
I can't believe Google chose the 1 billion dollar IDF contract over the wishes of 50 (ex-)employees. /s
A little meta, but in the last few years, I've seen so many online communities devolved into political circle jerks that completely robbed the original community from its purpose. An illustrative example that related to HN is https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/.
The mechanism is similar to the title above - you bring a hot political topic, and masquerade it to appear related to the main topic of the community. The discussions tend to get heated, which tend to - over time - make the people who cared about the community leave.
This might be a controversial take - but I think that HN should generally take a more strict approach to moderating political articles that are only vaguely HN related. I fully understand that political topics are important, but there are so many communities that have fallen, and I don't want to lose another. This is in no way a statement against the merits of the letter mentioned in the article.
> robbed the original community from its purpose.
> only vaguely HN related
This story is entirely under HN's remit. HN’s purpose is explicit. It is not “keep things comfortable.” It is “curious, informed discussion of what matters in and around tech.”
When a top tech firm is materially enabling coercion or violence, and even dodging the press over it, that is a tech story first and foremost. And it matters.
Besides which: Your argument is very old, and has been rejected many, many, many times.
> there are so many communities that have fallen, and I don't want to lose another
What killed r/technology wasn't 'politics'. It was mass censorship, shit mods, brigading, clickbait farming, and allowing the toxic elements to spread bs unchecked. You know, like when you let any users flag stories and then unaccountable mods with no logs very selectively unflag the ones they like.
Censoring 'political' topics just makes the smartest and coolest people leave. And our tech companies have been complicit collaborators in far too many serious crimes lately to trust things to work themselves out without even looking at them.
Tech companies have been deeply entangled with states and coercive institutions for decades, now up to the point of genocide, concentration camps, and masked thugs with "total federal immunity". Pretending that’s off-limits isn't community preservation. It's wilful ignorance and must be firmly rejected.
Some things we can’t just ignore.
These aren’t opt-in issues.
They really are
Nope, which is why people generally live longer and are happier in Europe compared to the US. The newest iphone doesn't make up for lack of health/friends/free time/education/sane leaders etc.
I always thought it was ridiculous that HN had a "no politics" rule. It is arrogance to think you can segment "politics" and confine it and then be above it somehow by using this as an excuse to not have discussions that make you uncomfortable. Everything is political.
It doesn't have a "no politics" rule.
It kinda does. Not completely, but close enough that it leads to certain people whining about the wrong things being on their hacker news.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
"Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon."
I also think it's a dumb rule.
It's not a dumb rule, you can go to reddit or facebook or a dozen other places if you want to read endless low-effort, kneejerk commentary by people spouting their side's talking points.
You're so right, the problem is not Trump posting fake AI videos of the Obamas as apes. That's actually very normal. The real problem is anyone who talks about it outside of r/politics.
Great. Also need Amazon and Microsoft to cut ties. Not just with ICE but the administration as a whole. Unfortunately this is also a time when employees have low leverage given all the layoffs. Better to fight for a union first.
Google couldn’t cut ties to genocide let alone local police.
Being that ICE has also been kidnapping some US citizens, this is par for the course. Beyond ICE, Google however needs to go further and also cut ties with Palantir which otherwise will become stronger by continuing to serve as a proxy cloud for ICE.
All these tech companies have cowards for leaders, and Sundar Pichai is no different. And he’s a non white immigrant! The CEOs fear being attacked by the administration through regulations or anti trust or not being given contracts. They are some of the most powerful people and yet they bend the knee so easily. Andy Jassy of Amazon is the worst though - funding the Melania documentary is so blatantly corrupt.
This era is evidence for why we cannot continue allowing individuals or mega corps to accumulate the kind of money and power they have. It is too easy to corrupt them.
Cowardice is the wrong word here. It implies that these people have a desired action that they're not taking because of fear, weakness, or hesitation.
What tech companies actually have is rapacious sociopaths for leaders. They have purposely brought about the current state of affairs through intensive lobbying, spending, and direct action.
For the most part, they don't believe that they should be held accountable for their behavior. They don't fundamentally believe in democracy, and many of them don't really believe humans and human life are more important than some other abstract concept that they have in their heads. At root, they all believe in rule by the elite.
This may seem like an argumentative distinction, but I would counter that it's crucial to understanding what we have to do next, which is not to try to convince them, but rather to take back the power that they've accumulated over us, against their best efforts to stop us.